Peter Cook

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Nick Gilbey  0:00  

Just have to start with a little bit of blurb. This is a British Entertainment History Project. The date is the 15th of September, 2025 I'm with Peter Cook at his home in Oxfordshire. And the copyright of this interview is vested in the British Entertainment History Project. Peter, perhaps we could just start with when and where were you born?

Peter Cook  0:36  

I was born in Watford in the nursing home on February the eighth, 1946

Nick Gilbey  0:45  

and did your parents have any thing to do with TV or film?

Peter Cook  0:52  

No, we didn't even have a television set until I was about 17.

Nick Gilbey  0:57  

And do you remember then watching that when you were 17? Or did you watch television before?

Peter Cook  1:05  

No, I think my The only time I watched television was when my pals invited me around. I remember particularly watching the "Z Cars", my friend Ian lived just around the corner. In fact, he's still alive, and we have a chat from time to time. But no, I was much more interested in outside activities than I was in sitting watching telly.

Nick Gilbey  1:41  

So when you left your education and what, when was that, then did you? Did you do? What made you, what was your first interest in broadcast television?

Peter Cook  1:59  

It was a bit of an accident, really. I wanted to go to university. I wanted to go to Southampton University, because that's where my brother was. And I had a place, I think at St Andrews had a place at Durham, but I didn't get a place in Southampton. And one of the reasons for that was the it was the first year of the central allocation, or clearing of students. I later learned from my brother there were 30 places vacant on that year, electrical engineering was what I was interested in, it. But I wrote to a number of places to see if they would do a sandwich course, and the BBC said no, but we are recruiting for technical operators and technical assistants. Well, I'd seen photographs of the booklet they sent me of chaps in white coats, sort of operating great consoles. And I thought, well, that looks that looks good. So I applied, and I was given an interview, which I lived in Scotland at that time, and my interview was in Glasgow, and they didn't seem bothered that I didn't know anything about television. They were much more interested in my Outward Bound things, and they offered me a job as a technical operator.

Nick Gilbey  3:37  

We were happy with that. Obviously you were you were more interested in doing the technical side of television. I mean, that technical operator obviously has a basic knowledge, but it's, did you feel that you were you could have gone in as a TA?

Peter Cook  4:01  

I think that they got it right, because I'm much more of a practical hands on person than the engineering side is not would not have suited me as well as the practical hands on side.

Nick Gilbey  4:22  

So you had your interview in Glasgow. But then, how did you? Where did you enter the BBC?

Peter Cook  4:32  

Well, I had a couple of months to spare, after they offered me, and I had accepted the job. It was what they call now, earn as you learn. I had three months as a trainee in Television Centre, then three months at Engineer. In Training Department at Evesham, wood, Norton, and then I came went back to studios, but I got a whiff of outside broadcasts, and I thought that would be much more interesting.

Nick Gilbey  5:15  

So when you went to Television Centre, what sort of programmes were you working on?

Peter Cook  5:18  

Oh, Jack and Roy Cracker Jack, black and white minstrels, which, of course, there's no no now, my diary tells me I did Jimmy Edwards a couple of times. Eamon Andrews, I seem to remember being one of the people who presented whatever programme I was working on,

Nick Gilbey  5:43  

so that must have been quite exciting, though, wasn't it to work with in those

Peter Cook  5:51  

it wasn't people, yes, although, because I didn't have much background In watching television as a viewer, they perhaps weren't as significant. What I do remember was walking from a studio to the canteen. One day, there were these two coppers walking towards me, and I realised one of them was Brian Blessed, because they were recording Zed cars. Now that really was, oh, wow, that's something I can tell people and boast about,

Nick Gilbey  6:29  

but the outside world beckoned you then,

Peter Cook  6:33  

yes, I think the variety on outside broadcast promised to be better, and I didn't actually like working in studio. You went in in the morning and came out some hours later. It could be daytime, it could be nighttime, and there was much I'd seen a couple of OBS and it seemed to be more of a friendly place in the studios. I don't know if that's perhaps the right description, but

Nick Gilbey  7:19  

And so, did you have an attachment to obese or was it a straight

Peter Cook  7:23  

No, I was working at Television Theatre, possibly on Jimmy Edwards show, and it was two doors away from I can't remember the name of the house, but it's a BBC office premises, and I went in there to the appropriate door, had a chat and said, I'd really like to transfer to OVS. And much to my surprise, within two or three weeks, I was transferred.

Nick Gilbey  7:55  

So your base became Kendall Avenue.

Peter Cook  7:58  

No, it was Wembley palace of arts,

Nick Gilbey  8:01  

right, right. And

Peter Cook  8:05  

it was there that I first met MCL 21 it was the 1963 when I joined. Was before BBC Two started when I moved to outside broadcast. That was the trucks like MCL 21 were what you would now call hybrid. You could do 405 lines, or you could do six to five. And I see so actually started on MCR 21 I started on MCL 21 so that was

Nick Gilbey  8:55  

right at the beginning of MCR 21 life.

Peter Cook  8:59  

Yes, it was June. I think first, the first day I went to Wimbledon, was Tuesday, the 30th of June. Is that 1964 1964 Right, right? Right.

Nick Gilbey  9:24  

And that's where that was quite a big OB to start with.

Peter Cook  9:28  

Yes, we had we had us trainees, sound and cameras all did a week's sort of familiarity in in Wembley,

Nick Gilbey  9:45  

I see it must be quite crowded in Wembley, because where you had MCR 21 and then were there still the three old units.

Peter Cook  9:54  

There was one called the ice cream van, which was a pie three inch scanner. Yeah, but the this was the start of there being six, or in fact, I think we went up to eight at one point, but two of them went off to the regions, I believe, yes, but the next week after the familiarisation to the equipment, we rigged Wimbledon, which was a week I remember the it was, it was very friendly. I didn't, I didn't have a car at the time, and there was one of my new colleagues, Selwyn, kind of took me under his wing and transported me and took me to the pub. When I when I arrived at OBEs, I was a half pint man. By the time Wimbledon had finished, it was more than that.

Nick Gilbey  11:09  

So there was a drinking culture within that sort of BBC fraternity.

Peter Cook  11:16  

Yes, pretty much you'd do a programme, and if there was time to get get a quick pint in before the D rig, you would, otherwise, you'd just hope the pubs were still open when you'd finished the D rig. The Albert Hall was a particular place where, when you been there since seven or eight in the morning and the concert, the prom, finishes at 1010, 30 at night. You might have a thirst.

Nick Gilbey  11:50  

So very varied hours, I suppose they were slightly varied, but you knew sort of pretty well when transmission was in the studio. But OB, day could be quite long.

Peter Cook  12:05  

Yes, the longest day I ever did was on a programme called the nation white yacht race. And I think I started work at nine o'clock in the morning. We were supposed to go through till 10 o'clock at night, but we actually went right around till six the next morning, my goodness, and we were sleeping on board this

Nick Gilbey  12:35  

boat anyway. Was that a live programme, or was it it

Peter Cook  12:39  

started off as live. The course set was from Cowes to Cherbourg, but as being a being a sailor, I knew that when the gun went off, we hadn't started because the flag hadn't broken. What had happened was the stage manager had tripped across the wire to the cannon and set the cannon off, and all these amateur sailors thought that was the start. They didn't look at the flag. Anyway, we we then because they had a programme slot to fill the next night. We spent the half the night motoring up and down, interviewing ship to ship, just to have something recorded that could be transmitted the next

Nick Gilbey  13:35  

night. And so there was a D rig onto a boat then, or

Peter Cook  13:39  

Yeah, there was, we had the honour, or the engineers did, of having the first transmission on a one inch recorder from somewhere other than in a truck, so obviously there's radio links involvement. I've got a photograph that somewhere

Nick Gilbey  14:04  

that would be good to see at some point. Do you know what year that would have been?

Peter Cook  14:08  

That would have been

Nick Gilbey  14:13  

we took. We're talking about one inch colour,

Peter Cook  14:16  

yeah. So that pin it. Pin it down to early 80s, I suppose it

Nick Gilbey  14:23  

sort of came in right at the 80s. Yeah. Well, can we go back in time to your time at MCR 21 so you did Wimbledon when you're taking on as a to do, you have to do duties, assisting cameras or or assisting sound, or it was,

Peter Cook  14:54  

I started off doing sound, and then cameras, then sound. It was, I. It was really well planned training, something that's vanished. Now everyone has a camera, and now they've all got phones and but yes,

Nick Gilbey  15:22  

what? Yeah, so, and then what happened? Did you decide that you'd like to do cameras, or did you have to apply? Yes, I was,

Peter Cook  15:33  

funnily enough, about half of the, I think there were eight of us transferred the same day, which is why there was such a busy week before Wimbledon, because there was an awful lot to learn and the cameras my first show after the week I mentioned was Wimbledon, which I also mentioned, Harry you probably may have met. He was senior cameraman on unit one, otherwise MCL 21 and one, and he allocated me on the first day of proper camera operation that I was asked to do was on Cine court, on one of the low personality cameras. And I think it was a test. I think it was sink or swim.

Nick Gilbey  16:45  

Sorry, what programme was that?

Peter Cook  16:47  

That was the Wimbledon tennis? Oh, right. In those days there were four, five cameras, I think on Centre Court. The irony of Wimbledon was that we just it was a new unit had just been put together and commissioned. But of course, at Wimbledon, there wasn't room for three scanners, so all the equipment came out of the scanner into a wooden hut, and then the truck was the old girl was taken away and parked up somewhere, right?

Nick Gilbey  17:30  

So do you remember? Was it actually the CCUS in there that the actual controls of the cameras or, or was it just production that was in, in, in

Peter Cook  17:44  

the CCUS, and I think the

Nick Gilbey  17:49  

it's just that we've been trying to work that one out. Brian summers and I, and we weren't quite sure how. I think there were different levels of D rig that you could do with MCR 21 and the other LL,

Peter Cook  18:04  

Wimbledon was total D rig from Mike, from what I can remember, yeah.

Nick Gilbey  18:13  

So you actually were sort of put in at the deep end, absolutely,

Peter Cook  18:20  

as I said, sink or swim. And so from when I was in studios for that short time, I got to handle a camera maybe two or three times, once was on captions, which in those days were on an easel,

Nick Gilbey  18:52  

was there so you never actually had to move to any movement.

Peter Cook  18:57  

Yes, the other thing I did was Blue Peter. And

Peter Cook  19:08  

I think that's the thing where you had to zoom through a window. And so I think I zoomed through the square window, right? That was this, that was pretty much the sum of all I did in the three months or four months I was in studios.

Nick Gilbey  19:26  

So after Wimbledon, did you do sound? Or did you stick with cameras?

Peter Cook  19:32  

I was, I was still doing cameras for a few weeks. Again, my cheaty diary, I know that we went to Bristol, and I remember Bristol was tennis. I think it was something like,

Peter Cook  19:59  

I. Think it was the Davis Cup, but I could be wrong. I also remember that on one night we decided to set out. In those days, Bristol was the home of burnians, which were famous for steaks and Sherry. So some bright spark said, right. Well, we ll go and have a meal. We ll have a drink in each one of the numerous Burnie inns. Well, Harry and I both shared the same problem the next day. Note to self, don t drink too much Sherry and eat steak. I think after that, we just consult. I

Nick Gilbey  21:06  

There's Wimbledon. So that's your first diary. Then is

Peter Cook  21:12  

it? Yes it is. We did something at motor racing, a brand's hatch.

Nick Gilbey  21:20  

Yes, that was a was that when Jim Clark won the British Grand Prix?

Peter Cook  21:30  

I'm not sure whether it was the grand prix or not, it was

Nick Gilbey  21:35  

and what did you do on that one?

Peter Cook  21:39  

I observed, I believe.

Nick Gilbey  21:44  

Do you remember the next time you operated a camera?

Peter Cook  21:57  

Yes, later in July, there was cricket at Hove and we were there for two days,

Peter Cook  22:10  

and then home for two days, then back for a different match. And just like tennis, because of the long spell I was I was used as a relief cameraman. So typically, if there were four cameras, there would be six cameramen. So you do an hour and a half on three quarters an hour off, or two hours on an hour off, allowing a little travelling time. This was common in all sports that went on all day, like golf.

Nick Gilbey  22:57  

Do you know what I mean? It's quite tricky doing cricket, from my own experience, following the ball, particularly if it's a six and things,

Peter Cook  23:09  

yeah, well, this is where it's handy to have somebody mentoring you and sharing the secrets. If you were doing a fielding camera on cricket, you don't try and follow the ball. You didn't then they do. Now, I don't know how they do it. You pop your head outside the viewfinder and you see where the general direction it's going, and then you frame or zoom, and with a bit of luck, the ball will land in shot.

Peter Cook  23:49  

Yeah, football is slightly different, most, mostly the camera one used to almost always be manned by the senior cameraman, except for when the relief took and gave him a spell.

Nick Gilbey  24:12  

And it's camera because there's, you know, I did a little video about filming match of the day, and usually there'd be two cameras on the rostrum in the centre centre line, one would be slightly closer and one would be a sort of wider shot. So would the senior cameraman be on the slightly wide issue,

Peter Cook  24:42  

yes, because that would be the camera that had the most shot to do. Yeah.

Nick Gilbey  24:56  

So I. I think, trying to think of it match of the day, were you involved in that? Yes. I think that started in 64

Peter Cook  25:10  

it did Yes. And I probably was one of the first

Peter Cook  25:20  

people to be at a match of the day, whether I operated a camera or not, I couldn't tell you, but the same principle applied into the deep end and learned from your colleagues the first match of the days. From from what I can recall the camera, the two cameras were end on, not sideways on. And I don't know how long that lasted for, but the sideways on is industry standard now, but they have so many cameras on football now that they they can afford to be more adventurous, shall I say. And of course, not, not in be later on from MCL 20 one birth, there would be one producer for the season, or two producers. Perhaps, if there was, I can't remember how many matches were broadcast, certainly nothing like today.

Nick Gilbey  26:49  

Very complicated today. So when did you become you became a camera operator full time.

Peter Cook  27:04  

Yes, I'm not sure of the exact date, but it was. There was a quite a battle for operators to be upgraded, and I can tell you roughly when that was, because when the union settled with the BBC on new new pay grades, it was the time I bought my first house, and the back pay that I was paid going from Grade C minus to grade C just covered the deposit for my house. And I know that was 1970 1970

Nick Gilbey  28:04  

Do you know roughly when that was, what year that was, 1970 Oh, sorry, I missed that I was and so you weren't with Harry. Then you were in different unit.

Peter Cook  28:21  

I was probably still with Harry. There was another little story with it was this,

Nick Gilbey  28:36  

we were into colour, or there was still black and white,

Peter Cook  28:39  

still black and white, we did songs of praise in Clacton, and we also did an entertainment programme in Clacton, and I know Harry was, was on that. And again, I can, I can pinpoint. I

Peter Cook  29:05  

September 1964 right holiday, holiday camps.

Nick Gilbey  29:16  

So you I

Peter Cook  29:17  

remember it well because I had food poisoning, it was a Butlins. And while I was recovering, what amused me was that there were chalet opposite where I was resting. I there was a constant stream in and out of young blokes, and later on, I discovered that that chalet was occupied by young women. You can draw your own conclusions from that, but holiday camps did have. Reputation in the in the 60s, right?

Nick Gilbey  30:04  

Yeah, so moving through the 60s, and we get to or around 1970 then,

Peter Cook  30:14  

well, colour came in. It surprised me when I was researching, the black and white scanners were 1963 64 onwards, and the first colour transmission, again, I think, was Wimbledon, and it was additional to the main coverage. That was, that was 1967 I think so. Sorry.

Nick Gilbey  30:52  

The way, there was BBC Two with colour, and there was BBC One still broadcasting in in, in monochrome, black and white. So that continued for a few years, didn't it? And yes, to start with the

Peter Cook  31:15  

almost always from, from what I can recall, the BBC Two went off the air during the day, so there would be something at breakfast time, and then somewhere about one o'clock or so, BBC Two would stop transmitting. We didn't have a lot of on site recording in those days, it was too expensive, and we used to get a lunch break after a year, a couple of years, as transmissions filled more of the day, We didn't get lunch breaks. And I can't remember specifically if MCR 21 was involved in much golf coverage. Every likelihood that I did. And again, from the point of view of learning, the trade following a golf ball is not the easiest thing in the world, very difficult. It's dependent on weather, and I dare say that with all the electronic gizmos that are now used, which track a ball through the air with much more precision than the humble cameraman I have upstairs a hole in one tie, which I think Ricky tilling decided, the cameraman who tracked a ball from the tea to the to popping in the hole deserved A little fun recognition. And you got that? I got three holes in one two were a sandwich, and the other one was Wentworth.

Nick Gilbey  33:30  

And did you get a drink afterwards? As well?

Peter Cook  33:37  

The 19th hole.

Nick Gilbey  33:42  

Well, that was that that was good, and that was that in that was in black and white days, or that was

Peter Cook  33:53  

no, that would have been colour. Oh, no, I think the first, first one sandwich, I think was black and white, and how times have changed. We arrived on site, uncovered the camera, so stop them steaming up. And there were, I think it was sponsored by Guinness. So having made sure the camera was warming up, because warm up and line up on the black and white cameras was considerably longer than it is now it's sort of probably half an hour or more. So pop over to the carrot this caravan, and they couldn't get coffee, we could get Guinness.

Nick Gilbey  34:51  

So we think, do you know what unit you joined when you became a. A fully qualified operator.

Peter Cook  35:04  

I know that for a spell I was working on, still a trainee, I was working on unit six, which Teddy Cox, but I haven't written down which unit I was on,

Nick Gilbey  35:20  

so unit six would have been based at Kendall Avenue again, yes,

Peter Cook  35:25  

the time we moved to Kendall Avenue, which I think was 65 I'm pretty sure it was

Nick Gilbey  35:34  

Oh yes, because, well, I think Harry said that yes, because that would have been early 65 I think he said that when Winston Churchill's funeral, was it you were before that you you were at Palace of arts. And then some of the units actually went back to Kendall Avenue after that, which would have been January, 65 Did you work on the well Winston Churchill's funeral?

Peter Cook  36:10  

No, sadly, I was on my first ever skiing holiday. I

Peter Cook  36:24  

Yeah, right. I've got Fairfield hall this. This was December boxing at the Albert Hall. Concert at the Albert Hall.

Nick Gilbey  36:38  

In what dates are those?

Peter Cook  36:40  

This is the November, December, 64 right? Also, again, the photograph, I'm sure I've sent to Brian, but if I haven't, I've got it upstairs in the marquee club.

Nick Gilbey  37:01  

Oh yes, yeah, you know, I've got that Yes.

Peter Cook  37:07  

We were very privileged, in a sense, because at that time, because of BBC Two, the range of programmes was was extended, and there was jazz six, two fives, which I remember doing quite a lot of we had people like Tubby Hayes, kind of more Adelie.

Nick Gilbey  37:41  

It's not very big, is it inside Marquis club. So did you have four cameras in there?

Peter Cook  37:47  

Yes, one of them on a dolly track by one of the rigger drivers along the back, and the other static.

Peter Cook  37:59  

One of the things that having watched some prom concerts recently, they've got so many toys the cameramen can express their skills really well.

Nick Gilbey  38:20  

It's sort of, what sort of toys and

Peter Cook  38:24  

cranes, Jimmy Jim,

Nick Gilbey  38:29  

that gives you a lot. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. So it's not just, it's the mechanical side of things as well. And I mean, with the Jimmy jibs and things, yes, and the electronics have come a long way as well. And as you said, you don't need to warm up search for such a long time.

Peter Cook  38:50  

There was one occasion I was I went to a camera we were doing wheel base and shamley green in Surrey, and I went and through the usual routine switch having the camera switched on by racks, this dear old lady came out and asked me if I'd like a cup of Tea. And I said, Oh, that'll be lovely. I said, but I've got to get this thing working first. And then she ushered me in and sat me down opposite this old gentleman. And what I didn't know at the time was the wheel base. Was all about specific manifest manufacture of car. And I was sitting waiting to be served this tea, and I looked around the room, and there were I. Are lots of certificates and lots of photographs, and I suddenly realised I was actually in the in the company of wo Bentley, and I've been chatting to for 1520 minutes without realising who he was. I hope it wasn't my fault, but he sadly died the next year. So again, that would pin. That was definitely colour, because it was a brand spanking new Emi 2001 photograph of me sitting on it, on the.on the Donny.

Nick Gilbey  40:40  

So there was a lot of variety of programmes that you did. I mean, obviously there was a staple, I suppose, of the sporting side of things. But mixed in with that, there were, particularly, you say, with BBC Two, there were sort of unusual things.

Peter Cook  40:58  

Well, one of the most difficult things was Rick Ryan, Rick's houses, which were recorded at the Whitehall theatre. I don't know how many people now will remember Rick's houses, but it was

Nick Gilbey  41:22  

going in one door and coming out another, that sort of thing, yeah,

Peter Cook  41:26  

and the speed at which the cameras were switched could be phenomenal. Two shot there, single shot there, wide shot there. Didn't have time to read the shot numbers on the shot card, so you had to remember, and it's given me an understanding of how skillful are actors and actresses who do live

Nick Gilbey  41:59  

coverage of such things. So it was fast for the actors, but it was also fast for you as well to get the right shots.

Peter Cook  42:06  

Another occasion where Harry could be mentioned is Farnborough. I was spotting for him on a pair of long lead cans. And there was a Bristol Bulldog. Started a loop, but he didn't quite finish it well. He finished it in a pile of broken wooden canvas. And Harry, because I believe he worked in, or been in the RAF, he threw the headset at me and said, you do the camera. I'm and he legged it across to see what he could do to help. And fortunately, the the plane was a write off, but the pilot survived.

Nick Gilbey  43:13  

Is a difficult decision to make, isn't it, I suppose, but unfortunately, you were there. I mean, what I'm saying is, do you get? Do you record it, or do you go and help in a situation? Right?

Peter Cook  43:26  

Yes. And of course, in those days, motor racing was much more dangerous than it is now. And there, there are a number of other stories where cameramen have had narrow squeaks,

Nick Gilbey  43:46  

what being being in the wrong place? Maurice

Peter Cook  43:52  

Abel, who was another camera supervisor, he had a lovely shot of a car out of control,

Peter Cook  44:07  

and then the picture went sideways, and what had happened? The wheel had come off the car and bounced across and hit Morris in the chest, throwing him away from the camera. He wasn't injured, and I don't think the driver was either. But who is that? The cameraman, Morris Abel, I know. Yes, still with us. I suspect he's well, I'm nearly 80, and Morris is probably 10 years or more older than me, so,

Nick Gilbey  44:42  

yeah, yes, well, he was a senior cameraman, wasn't he?

Peter Cook  44:48  

Yes, it's there again. I have supplied Brian with a crew list. He.

Nick Gilbey  45:00  

Yeah, yes, Brian very kindly has passed that on. Well, a

Peter Cook  45:05  

lot of the information came. Of the programming came from this right, Whitehall. Well, that would Whitehorn in December, November, probably festival remembrance in November, possibly State Opening of Parliament or whatever in December, bernardos in December, coming up to Christmas, bernardos, oh,

Nick Gilbey  45:43  

bananas, sorry, my earrings not brilliant.

Peter Cook  45:49  

Marquis club, December, Richmond ice rink in December. And of course,

Peter Cook  46:05  

those are all programmes I can definitely say I was at. There are lots of other times later on in colour, we kind of expanded and production went into new areas. Actually, there was another thing that popped into my mind, chosen frontier, or it's a knockout. Another, another thing that we used to do in those days that doesn't really happen now, is Miss World. I think it happens, but it's not televised, and so there are places like the Albert Hall and probably the ly Cine had permanent cable rigs. So rather, rather than a complete rig, including cables, you just put

Nick Gilbey  47:19  

bits on the end. Yeah. Well, that makes life a lot easier. Of course, the Albert Hall would be difficult. What must be a difficult rig with because of the layout of it being circular, yes, where

Peter Cook  47:35  

the trucks park outside? There's a big box with all the ends from inside labels, that would be a saving of an awful lot of Tyre rigging time.

Nick Gilbey  47:56  

So you think you were in TED Cox's crew then in colour? Or did you move about at all? Or how did that

Peter Cook  48:06  

work? No, I started off on Harry's unit, and I know that the next thing I recognised from my diary was the general election at which,

Nick Gilbey  48:29  

sorry, was this was Harry, or was that when you moved on,

Peter Cook  48:41  

I think I went between one and six, right? Because I can, I can identify, in my memory or remote,

Nick Gilbey  48:56  

particular shows one. We're talking about MCR 20, unit one or would, would that be in a different EMIC,

Peter Cook  49:05  

Ll, 21 I was on probably two or three months, and then two or three months on another unit, and then back I spent most of My training period was with one, and it was actually Harry who identified upset him or something. But when it came for my period of training to end, I was asked to do another three months, which must mean that Harry, for some reason or other, didn't think I was ready her.

Nick Gilbey  49:58  

So you stayed with MCR 21 Or did you go to well?

Peter Cook  50:03  

Yes, I stayed with himself 21 until my probationary period was extended.

Peter Cook  50:19  

Then I spent three months, I think, on unit six, and then I went back to Unit One, and Harry and I still talked

Nick Gilbey  50:36  

when I mean, your career with the BBC lasted until, I mean, you were through and through a BBC person. Yes, I

Peter Cook  50:56  

joined BBC when I was still 17, and I later learned that I shouldn't have been allowed to work in studios until I was 18, but I did three months before I was 18, and then I went to Evesham for Three months and told you the story from there,

Nick Gilbey  51:25  

but you stayed on the camera side throughout your your career.

Peter Cook  51:29  

Yes, the other thing that you're talking about the move from Wembley to Acton. At that time I was doing my one of my sound attachments, I was working on radio mikes. Radio mikes in those days were a very different kettle of fish to what they are now. The batteries didn't last long, so I had to be mindful of that, but I the move to Kendall Avenue was staggered, and radio links were the first group to move and because of the Radio Mikes were looked after maintenance wise, I moved to Wembley earlier than most of my colleagues,

Nick Gilbey  52:31  

and so into the 70s. What were you doing then?

Peter Cook  52:41  

More more of the same. I was gradually spent more time operating

Nick Gilbey  52:48  

right? I think the

Peter Cook  52:50  

I think we probably only had six months before we were again, if you are able to consult the crew list that you have, you can see who was on cameras, who was on sound, who was a trainee, who was The engineering manager, who was the vision of supervisor,

Nick Gilbey  53:22  

did conditions change throughout your career? I mean, you said you did an incredible amount of hours. Did was that reflected in the money that you got? Or were you Well, we had an

Peter Cook  53:40  

allowance for unsocial hours that got paid and was pensionable.

Nick Gilbey  53:59  

So were you, were you? Were you happy with those conditions? I mean, was there a different breed between, you know, studio and outside broadcasts,

Peter Cook  54:15  

there is and what was interesting is the traffic was one way people from Television Centre or other studios would apply for and get summer relief attachments, and quite a lot of them decided that they would soon be on obese, so having gone back to the studios after the summer attachment, they would talk to personnel, and quite a lot of them turned up in obese

Nick Gilbey  54:59  

and liked it. Like

Peter Cook  55:01  

they came because it suited them, like it suited us,

Nick Gilbey  55:07  

when you're throwing out something different.

Peter Cook  55:10  

Yes, the other thing too is there's although the wives and girlfriends might not like it

Peter Cook  55:18  

when you are travelling together, using the same hotel, working together, helping each other out, minding each other's back. It's like a family, the family at home, sadly, get a raw deal, but some of the places I've seen and been and met has spoken to are remarkable. I mean, I can honestly say I've been on stage with Freddie Mercury. It was a 1979 Christmas Eve live transmission from the Hammersmith Odeon. And I was doing a handheld camera on the stage. I also was on stage with Abba in Brighton in 1974 was that the Eurovision Song, the one Waterloo. And as an aside, I think the local bookies didn't do too well

Nick Gilbey  56:30  

because they weren't favourite. They were right down the bottom, weren't they, I think, in terms of betting, if you were going to say who was going to win, things, yeah,

Peter Cook  56:39  

then of course, they won. I I've shaken hands with the chap who now resides at Buckingham Palace, as we were doing. I think it was a

Peter Cook  57:04  

tomorrow's world used to do every year an innovation award, and one year it was at Highgrove, and the first thing that happened in the morning was somebody came in with strike notices. So most of us stayed, and some didn't. So mostly the rigger drivers went off, which left the cameramen and the sound people to do all the cable rigging. It was jolly hard day's work and the then Prince came over to each one of us individually. Afterwards, he said to me, will you get into trouble for working today? And I said, I don't think so, sir. I said, because normally I have loyalty to my employer. I have loyalty to my trade union. But I said it's 3121, because there's loyalty to the crown. Jolly good. He said, Because, I said, as an aside, I said, I won't get into trouble with people calling me a black leg, because anything I earn today I'm going to give to the Princes Trust. So that's when he said, Johnny Goon,

Nick Gilbey  58:29  

you mentioned the union. I mean, was it? It was nothing like ITV, though. Was it really in terms of restrictive practices?

Peter Cook  58:40  

And I'm not terribly familiar with what was going on another outside the BBC,

Nick Gilbey  58:48  

yes, I mean, it's, I suppose some events were actually you were side by side, though, with

Peter Cook  58:55  

IHS Wembley football, for instance. I

Nick Gilbey  59:04  

was a rivalry, or was it friendly relationships?

Peter Cook  59:10  

I think the only distinction was that the ITV bloats could afford better cars and what have you, then we could, but I was never,

Peter Cook  59:25  

I think, some something working for the BBC that is Different and privileged.

Nick Gilbey  59:39  

So you weren't ever tempted to apply outside the BBC.

Peter Cook  59:44  

I mean, I considered it, but it was always the BBC is probably not really the same anymore, since they put. Basically inspired changes that happened a few years back. One of the reasons I left,

Peter Cook  1:00:10  

it's, it's difficult to put it into words, but

Nick Gilbey  1:00:14  

did you? Did you? I mean, there was a you had to, you had to retire at 60, if you were staff, weren't you at the BBC or I was in 1985

Peter Cook  1:00:35  

I was widowed, and I was offered redundancy and pension at 50. So to look after my children, I decided that was the thing to do. Obviously reduced pension, and then after two or three years down the line, I started doing a bit of freelancing. And I freelanced until,

Peter Cook  1:01:11  

I think it was, Oh, it doesn't really matter what year, but some of the some of the

Peter Cook  1:01:21  

freelance, work was quite interesting. I did the Winter Olympics at Nagano. I did Formula One boat racing in Norway.

Nick Gilbey  1:01:40  

So the Olympics that you did, that was in Japan. Did you say?

Peter Cook  1:01:47  

Sorry, yes, Nagano is Japan. I was at the 1972 Olympics

Nick Gilbey  1:01:54  

in Munich. Oh, right. Oh, dear, yes,

Peter Cook  1:01:57  

a whole different story,

Nick Gilbey  1:02:02  

because that was the BBC actually had the contract to do certain sports. And is that the way it worked with you?

Peter Cook  1:02:10  

They did. But I was, I actually was, there were three of us operating two cameras on shift in the studio. We had frank boff and David vine. Frank Wilson, I found him to be a charming man, but how wrong can one be? Well, yes. Rolf Harris, the same. I felt that he he was very kind and helpful.

Nick Gilbey  1:02:52  

Well, I suppose you can't just tell in a work situation, I suppose, no,

Peter Cook  1:03:05  

it's like the current. I don't know whether it will be current when you stitch this together, but

Peter Cook  1:03:20  

it's amazing how much people can hide, isn't it?

Nick Gilbey  1:03:26  

Yes, yeah, yeah. Television persona is, is, is only one side of somebody, I suppose, in terms of, I mean, there's great publicity now about bullying within the BBC, but well within the production companies, of course, it's a different setup now, isn't it, because very few programmes are actually apart from the news and everything are actually produced by the BBC, but I suppose there's always going to be a certain amount of bullying. Did you ever come across that within the BBC?

Peter Cook  1:04:09  

No, I said earlier that it was like family, and as with family, you may not like somebody, but you don't have much choice. You can't choose your family. You can choose your friends,

Nick Gilbey  1:04:30  

and that would be the odd person

Peter Cook  1:04:33  

to a degree that was the same in OBS, there were people you had to work with. And there were people who was a joy to work with, and there were those who made it more difficult.

Nick Gilbey  1:04:53  

I think, I mean, Harry Coventry doesn't make any so he. To put it on camera that he didn't get on with Brian Cargill. And that with Brian Cargill, oh yeah. And I've also interviewed Peter Dimick, who he talked about the time. Well, his relationship, he said because, of course, Peter was in charge. But Brian Cowgill said to him, when he was presenting sports for you, or sports for you when you're in my studio, I'm the boss. But Brian said that to Peter Dimick and such, which, I suppose, if he's the director and producer, then that is the case. But he was married to Polly elwys, wasn't he? He was yes. Peter Demick, yes, there's one

Peter Cook  1:05:43  

day in the Royal Ascot. He wanted to get in to the

Peter Cook  1:05:58  

restricted area, and he, the man with the bowler hat, said, You can't come in here, sir. And he said, I've got here an invitation into this place from the Duke of Norfolk. And the chap replied, I am the Duke of Norfolk.

Nick Gilbey  1:06:25  

Yeah, yes, well, I think he did a lot for because he was head of a huge department. Wasn't he an outside broadcast and so very I suppose it was his person. Personality. He was very forward and outgoing.

Peter Cook  1:06:47  

But the one thing that changed gradually, I think, to the detriment of the job and the service was specialisation crept in. And I think it started with Alec weeks

Nick Gilbey  1:07:03  

on football. Yeah,

Peter Cook  1:07:08  

one of the attractions of the job was that, apart from Wimbledon or a long

Peter Cook  1:07:18  

sporting event, you go somewhere different just about every day, and you do different things. So starting at the top with royal events, public events, tribute of colour, remembrance, Sunday, drama, you um current affairs. We did them all. So I would have to know what Mr. Callaghan looked like. I would have to know the difference between an oboe and a clarinet, I would have to be quick to recognise people who would pop up in a shop. So who's that? Oh, so and so. He's the head of such a trade union,

Nick Gilbey  1:08:23  

and this where you think the variety of work that you did did start to decline specialisation, and

Peter Cook  1:08:31  

then it sort of almost went into free fall when John Burke got involved, because someone somewhere had this stopping idea, if you only did 75% of the programming, you could save 25% of the cost.

Nick Gilbey  1:08:50  

So you mentioned Alec weeks, Alex, it's Alec. Alec weeks, yeah. Well, he wanted a certain crew for

Peter Cook  1:09:01  

he wanted a certain crew. And on one occasion, when I'd just been turned down for a promotion, head of cameras said to me, oh by the way, sorry, you didn't get the job. Will you please take over unit three for six months? And that was a football crew, and Alec had always senior camera on camera one, number two on camera two, and then close up camera and special moment. Special. Anyway, I went and had a conversation with him after the first match, and he did shout quite a bit, but I wouldn't call it about bullying. I said, Alex, can we have a chat about. Not accruing. What's that boy I said, You've got John Smithson, who is probably one of the best camera one operators. You've got Chris Wickham, who's good tight camera. You've got Chris Penny, who is a camera four expert. And there's me, I'm really good at camera three, personality camera. And he mumbled and mumbled, and eventually he said, Okay, we ll try it. And after the first trial, it worked very well, and he thanked me, but that was one example of where specialisation, if you're too rigid, If you, if you're used to doing camera one, you're suddenly put on camera five. It's bound to be detrimental.

Nick Gilbey  1:11:11  

Yeah, so, and I think that did that happen with cricket as well?

Peter Cook  1:11:19  

Not it did, but after, after my time, right? I mean, I'm solished at how on earth the cameraman followed the ball from bowler's hand to bat.

Nick Gilbey  1:11:41  

Lot of them are Australian, apparently. Don't know why, but, well, I think, I think we is there anything else you'd like to cover? Do you think I'm

Peter Cook  1:11:57  

about to think of something that's the moment you've turned the camera off?

Nick Gilbey  1:12:00  

Shall I switch it off for the moment and then do.